Here I forward a post:
Hello, brothers and sisters! Today, I send a post for the first time, and I have a question to discuss with you. Give me a hand, please.
Since I believed in the, I have been regarding the Bible as a treasure; moreover, I have been treating the words in the Bible as the supreme criterion of my and work to act. Especially, the pastors and elders always preach to us, “Brother Paul said, ‘All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness’ (2 Timothy 3:16). All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and all the words in the Bible are God’s words, this is beyond doubt.” Therefore, I have been thinking that all the words in the Bible are God’s words for many years.
But recently, an older sister said to me, “We have been thinking that all the words in the Bible are God’s words, but there’re words that serpent spoke to entice Eve in Genesis, words that Satan spoke to accuse Job in the Book of Job, and also, words that the ass spoke to Balaam in Numbers. Can we say their words are God’s words? Isn’t this serious blasphemy against God? The sin of blaspheming God shall never be forgiven!” Hearing her words, I couldn’t help producing the confusion: The Bible indeed contains the words of Satan, the ass, and the Pharisees. Their words can’t be said to be God’s words, or it will seriously offend God! In that case, why did Brother Paul say that the Bible is inspired by God? Which kind of saying is in line with the Lord’s intention on earth?
This question is crucial, but I really can’t figure it out. Brothers and sisters, do you have different understandings? I’m looking forward to your replies. Thank you!
Posted by Zhen Mudao
All the words in the Bible are God’s words, and what is wrong with what we are receiving?Paul said very clearly in 2 Timothy that the Bible is all inspired by God, and so all words in the Bible are God’s words.We are going by Paul’s words. How can this be wrong?
Yeah, I agree with Jason’s opinion, and give you a thumbs up.
In my opinion, moderator, you think too much, @Zhen Mudao. All words in the Bible are God’s words, and how could there still be any doubt on this? This is acknowledged by the leaders of the entirecommunity; the pastors and elders also preach like this. And so it is unnecessary for us to doubt there is something wrong with it.
Stretching your hand to touch light:
I don’t quite agree with the two comments above, and my point of view is different from yours.
Many brothers and sisters all believe these words of Paul. But first, we need to know one point: Paul’s word only represents the word of a human, not God’s word. We see that the entire Bible has sixty-six books, and we don’t find that God says “The Bible is all inspired by God” and “All the words in the Bible are God’s words.” Since God didn’t say it, then is the word of Paul in line with God’s word? Do the word of thetestify to that?
If this statement by Paul is corroborated by the words of the Lord Jesus or the Holy Spirit, then we should accept and obey that, which is completely in line with the Lord’s intentions. No matter who he is, as long as his words are not testified by the words of the Lord Jesus or the Holy Spirit, then we cannot accept or obey them blindly. Because man is man, and is only a creature, man’s words are not able to replace the Creator’s intentions; only the Lord Jesus whom we believe in is the Lord ofof heaven. Only by acting according to the words of God, can we be approved by God.
The words of “Stretching your hand to touch light” are very insightful, and these questions are really worthy of our reflection. If we want to obtain the Lord’s approval, then we have to pay attention to seeking the Lord’s intentions, and use His words as our principle and basis in everything. Only in such way will we not hold on to some traditions of men and statements without the basis. Otherwise, all will be in vain eventually!
Hearing what you say, I think of a fact.
LOL. Moderator,what do you think of? Please share it with us. EXPECTING …
As we all know, Paul used to resist God and oppose the Lord Jesus, and he was the ringleader of the opposition against the Lord Jesus’ work. Even though the Lord Jesus chose Paul as an apostle to spread the gospel, Paul was still a created creature. Therefore, his words are undoubtedly all the words of a man. The Lord Jesus is God, while all of the Lord Jesus’ apostles and disciples are men, and they cannot be compared to the Lord Jesus Himself.
Therefore, as for the words said by man, we cannot accept and obey them blindly, but ought to seek whether they are in accordance with God’s will, which is of vital importance for us to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Your fellowships are indeed reasonable. The words of Paul only represent his personal ideas, not the Lord Jesus’ intentions, which is the fact we cannot deny. However, no matter what you say, the words “All scripture is given by inspiration of God” said by Brother Paul is written in the Bible, and so it surely makes sense; all the pastors and elders of the religious community as a whole preach in this way. Do you dare to deny it?
Jason is right! Give you another thumbs up. Today, I luckily meet a bosom friend. Your viewpoints fit in with mine readily!
Stretching your hand to touch light:
Since we all, according to 2 Timothy 3:16, believe that the Bible is all inspired by God and that all the words in the Bible are God’s words, then let’s investigate the background of Paul’s words together, shall we?
I agree with you. Which brother and sister is clearer on this aspect of the truth, please reply to it actively!
Occasionally passing by, I never imagined that I would meet this problem … It is coincidence that I have studied theology in the seminary; moreover, I am fond of reading the historical books in everyday life. So I know a little of this aspect.
We all know that “all scripture is given by inspiration of God” is written by Paul toTimothy. At that time, when Paul wrote this letter, there was only the Old Testament, and the New Testament was merely dozens of letters kept in various churches separately, without being compiled into a book. Not until after 300 A.D. was the New Testament formed. That is to say, the New Testament existed more than two hundred years after Paul wrote the letters. Therefore, we can see the word of Paul refers to the Old Testament.
I have also discovered another aspect. From Moses writing Genesis to the Lord Jesus coming to work in New Testament times, there was at least one thousand years. That is to say, Paul didn’t know the authors of the Old Testament at all. Unless these authors told him personally, or the words “All scripture is given by inspiration of God” were clearly written in the Old Testament, how could Paul know the Old Testament was given by inspiration of God? However, we all know that neither did the authors tell Paul, nor did the Old Testament record that. Then the words “All scripture is given by inspiration of God” said by Paul is without any factual evidence.
When you put it like that, this really does seem to be the case. Thank the Lord!My heart is a lot more enlightened now.
Previously, I had been confused: If the Bible is really all inspired by God and all the words in the Bible are God’s words, then can we take those words recorded in the Old Testament as the words of God? For example, the words that the serpent spoke to entice Eve, the words that Satan spoke to accuse Job, the words that the ass spoke to Balaam, and the words of the ilk of the band of Korah. Now, I get it. The words “All scripture is given by inspiration of God” said by Paul were from his personal imagination. They are not in accordance with the truth.
Stretching your hand to touch light:
I support the moderator’s viewpoint.
Jason, Cassidy, what about you?
Although your fellowships are right too, anyway, haven’t we all been thinking so for many thousands of years? Since Paul said like this, so do the pastors and elders, and then I will just listen to what they say. That’s definitely right!
That’s true, and I believe whatever the pastors and elders tell me!
I’m bewildered. The brothers and sisters have given us such a clear communication right now, why are you so stubborn? Who can save you, Paul or God? Who is the Lord of the kingdom of heaven? Whom do you believe in, God or man? How come you just can’t get your heads around this?
Thriving is my wish:
With respect, it has truly proved that the words in the Bible are not completely God’s words. Knowing these, if we still blindly cling to our own opinions, following man’s words, then what is the true nature of this?
Thinking back to the time when the Pharisees resisted and condemned the Lord Jesus, many people rejected the salvation of the Lord Jesus because they listened to the Pharisees’ words, so that they were eliminated and condemned precisely because they resisted the Lord Jesus. Have we not absorbed these lessons? Is the failure of the Pharisees not a lesson worth absorbing? Do you still want to play the role of the Pharisees?
Uh … Uh …
You can say whatever you like. In any case, I think so. Well, just stop here, I’ll leave …
It’s time for dinner. I’ll excuse myself for a while, you guys go on …
LOL … Let’s treat it as an interlude.
Brothers and sisters, now I desire to understand a question: Which words are God’s words in the Bible?
I would like to express my ideas. After studying the Bible, I find out that all God’s words are indicated clearly.
The words Jehovah God revealed to the prophets are all indicated with “thus said the LORD,” “the LORD has spoken,” etc. For example, Ezekiel 34:11: “For thus said the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out”; Isaiah 1:2-3: “Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD has spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. The ox knows his owner, and the ass his master’s crib: but Israel does not know, my people does not consider.” These above prove that the prophets were conveying and repeating God’s word.
The Lord Jesus’ words are all marked with “and Jesus said to them,” “Jesus answered them,” “Jesus said,” or we are directly told that the words are from the Lord Jesus. For instance, Matthew 4:19: “And he said to them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men”; Matthew 5:1-4: “And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came to him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying, Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted”; Matthew18:22: “Jesus said to him, I say not to you, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.”
God’s words in Revelation are also clearly indicated with “said the Lord,” “and he that sat on the throne said,” and so on. For example, Revelation 1:8: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, said the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”; Revelation 21:5: “And he that sat on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said to me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
This really is true. In the Bible, only Jehovah God’s words, the words that Jehovah God spoke to the prophets, the Lord Jesus’ words and the words that God revealed to John are God’s words, and the rest are historical facts or their personal experiences and knowledge recorded by more than forty authors. Although most of the contents came out of the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit, they cannot be equated to God’s words. Just as in the Old Testament, many records are historical facts that God worked in the Age of Law; besides, there are the words of Satan, the words of the ass, and so on. And in the New Testament, except the words quoted by every author from God’s words, the remaining words are man’s knowledge, seeing and understandings. Just like the letters of Peter, Paul, Timothy and others, these letters only represent man’s work, and represent their personal experiences and knowledge. They wrote these letters to support, help, and encourage the brothers and sisters in the church completely out of their burden for the Lord’s trust. Moreover, they never said their own words were God’s words; in addition, they all would specifically write these letters “XX, an apostle …”in the beginning of the letters. That’s a fact.
Stretching your hand to touch light:
I also support your opinions, @Jingyuan @Houlin. God is the Creator, and only God’s words are the truth, the way, and the life, while we humans are creatures of God. There is a difference in essence between the creature and the Creator, which cannot be compared andconfused together forever. God’s work and words cannot be replaced by any corrupt man. In the course of us humans experiencing God’s work, no matter how much of a help the experiences, knowledge or enlightenment from the Holy Spirit that we gain are to people, they cannot be treated as God’s words, and only can be used as a reference. Just as Paul, Peter, and Matthew at that time, they were all the men that God used, not the incarnate God. Although their letters are of great benefit to the brothers and sisters in the church, they cannot be said to be the words of the Holy Spirit, which is absolutely certain. God’s word is the expression of God’s disposition and all that He has and is, and it is the reality of positive things and can be man’s life.Words spoken by man that are in line with the truth all come from man’s experiences and understandings of God’s word and the truth, and all represent the stature of man at the time. The words that conform with the truth can only provide people with a bit of help and benefit, but cannot be man’s life. Even if they contain the enlightenment and illumination of the Holy Spirit, but they cannot be compared to God’s word at all.
This kind of fellowship is great, and very enlightening. It makes me able to tell the difference between the words of God and the words of man in the Bible all at once, otherwise I will believe muddle-headedly that the words in the Bible are all God’s words, and even will offend God yet be oblivious to it. Thank the Lord! Today, through everyone’s fellowship, my confusions have been resolved, and I really have gained great results! I must tell the brothers and sisters of our church about this so that they can develop discernment.
Right, the more we debate, the clearer our understanding of the truth becomes. Now, I know that the Bible is not inspired by God, and that the words in the Bible are not entirely God’s words. Having studied theology for many years, I have come into contact with so many pastors and elders, but nobody is able to see this fact clearly! Alas … If it weren’t for today’s fellowship, I would still be in the dark! Thanks to the guidance of the Lord!
That’s for sure! Thinking of that now makes me really scared. If we take the words of man as the words of God, it means that we treat man as God, this is going against facts and blaspheming God. Then no matter how much hardship we have suffered, God won’t acknowledge this kind of faith of ours. Because the Lord has told us definitely: “Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).
Therefore, if we believers want to be approved by the Lord, we should treat the Bible properly, and not blindly worship the Bible; we should differentiate between the words of God and the words of man when reading the Bible. No matter what matter we encounter, we should seek and practice in accordance with God’s words, whereas the word of man is merely a reference. If man’s word conforms with the truth, we adopt his word; otherwise, we refuse. Only by practicing in this way can we believersact in harmony with the will of God.
You are right, and I give you a like, Hou Lin.
From now on, we need to treat the Bible correctly, and cannot regard all the words in the Bible as God’s words.
Stretching your hand to touch light:
I support the moderator’s opinion above.
I agree too.
Yeah. I can’t agree more.
Thank God for leading our today’s fellowship. All the glory be to our Father in heaven.
Dear brothers and sisters, If you have any understanding or enlightenment from God, welcome to share with us via the online chat window at the bottom of the website or send an email to [email protected]. We sincerely hope we’ll grow spiritually through sharing with each other.